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Mr . MENKES . Not moving . Now , I have said repeatedly that the manual instructs the operator to move himself around , to tilt him self , to adjust his weight to various driving conditions . And of course , that would affect that picture . I said so three times as I made the presentation .

However , what it is incumbent upon this committee to recognize is , no matter what is printed in the manual , it is not possible to assure that the response of the operator will always be exactly cor rect . It is just not possible , and you must recognize this as part and parcel of the problem .

Mr . CRAIG . Thank you , Mr . Menkes , and I do recognize that . And I would have to say in closing — and I thank the chairman for his lenience on time — that that is true in any vehicle that is driven by a human being . You cannot assure the ability and / or the response of the operator .

I would say in closing , Mr . Chairman , that I find it interesting , although I know that there are people who have a broad cross section of talents in a variety of areas , that Mr . Menkes has ap peared or has offered expert opinion on everything from liquid nat ural gas tanks to pneumatic cameras to truck exhaust systems to automobile transmissions to electric drills and to masonry nails .

And I think in this instance it is very important that this com mittee have the expert testimony and engineering studies by which to review in our making of findings .

Thank you , Mr . Chairman . Mr . BARNARD . I might say that staff says that we had requested that of the manufacturers , but we were unable to get that informa tion . Maybe they will furnish it now .

Mr . CRAIG . Mr . Chairman , that brings up an interesting point . I believe the gentleman , Mr . Takahusi , is here today , who is the en gineer who designed the ATC vehicle , who is the expert , if there is an expert , on the capabilities of this machine based on engineering design . Thank you .

Mr . BARNARD . Still , it doesn ' t answer the fact that we requested the information and didn ' t get it according to my understanding .

Mr . Kolter . Mr . KOLTER . No questions .

Mr . BARNARD . Gentlemen , you have been very cooperative and we certainly appreciate the testimony that you have offered . I just have one final question of Mr . Scanlon . I got a little confused . I did not see a copy of the trial transcript , so I was interested in some of the questions that Mr . Craig pursued as far as the rulings and the findings in the court .

But one question . Did the judge in the case ; did they find that the ATV ' s or ATC ' s were safely and properly designed ?

Mr . TIMOTHY SCANLON . The judge ruled that there was sufficient evidence for the jury to decide whether or not this model was in herently dangerous , and the jury so found .

Mr . BARNARD . So , in other words , he did permit that question to be asked by the jury ?

Mr . TIMOTHY ŠCANLON . Yes , sir . Mr . BARNARD . Do you want to follow that up ?

Mr . CRAIG . Gentlemen , thank you very much for your testimony . I appreciate it .