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Mr . BARNARD . Mr . Craig ? Mr . CRAIG . Thank you very much , Mr . Chairman .

Mr . Scanlon , Mr . Statler , we appreciate your testimony today and your concern over this issue . There are several questions I would like to ask , but the one that prompts my mind now , as it relates to your statement , Mr . Statler , that you just simply didn ' t have the money 2 years ago to launch the kind of investigation that apparently you at that time felt should be launched . Did you at that time feel it should be launched ?

Mr . STATLER . No ; I didn ' t even know about this problem 2 years ago .

Mr . CRAIG . Didn ' t even know about it ? Mr . STATLER . No .

Mr . CRAIG . Let ' s see , 2 years ago would have been 1983 . Fifty - one deaths occurring in ATV

Mr . STATLER . Sir , let me interrupt . Mr . CRAIG . I am using your statistics . Mr . STATLER . But as of that time , we didn ' t know of 51 deaths . Mr . CRAIG . I understand . Mr . STATLER . We only learned - - Mr . CRAIG . Well , then how did the budget - -

Mr . STATLER . Keep in mind we are about 142 years behind on death statistics . We have to depend , given our lack of resources , on the States .

Mr . CRAIG . So you say it is the ability of gaining data , not the ability to act in response to , that is a problem of budget cuts ?

Mr . STATLER . That is one problem . But if you don ' t have the data in the first place , you can ' t act upon what you don ' t have , what you don ' t know about .

Mr . CRAIG . That is correct . So was there a budget problem ?

Mr . STATLER . There has been a budget problem very severely since 1981 . And just again to put things in perspective , since 1981 there has been a 36 - percent cut in terms of funds and staff . But there is a budget problem going back to 1974 . That was our first year of existence . And we have had , we have suffered , we have en dured a 53 - percent cut in terms of our available dollars , in terms of real dollars , since 1974 .

Mr . Craig . Well , I guess the point I am trying to understand at least because it is the point you made , and I gather - and is my concluding thought reasonable — you are saying you were incapable of acting back 2 years ago because of budget cuts , and yet you are saying 2 years ago you didn ' t know about it . So how could you act if you didn ' t know ?

Mr . STATLER . What I am saying is , if we had not been so severely cut , we would have had the epidemiological force , staff .

Mr . CRAIG . But what would have triggered - -

Mr . STATLER . We would have had the people in the field to do the checking of indepth investigations that were coming in even then . We would have had the analysts in Washington , in headquarters , to study these problems .

Mr . CRAIG . So you are making the assumption , Mr . Statler , that if the money had been there you would have known , therefore you would have acted ? Is that what you are saying ?